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  1. #46
    Senior Member SwisStingray's Avatar
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    Sounds good, I hope this post will help most of us to be aware of it's very important subject.

    I'm just afraid that many owners will reply without reading all the very interesting informations contained in the different links present in this post.

    Apart that replying to my 3 questions posted upper should give an idea about what you think about informing the dealer, etc.

    About the S2000 break in oil, it's also most interesting as this S2000 engine is one of the most reliable and doesn't eat oil (or slightly on the track but that's normal). Honda is a great motorist and could not be wrong
    Last edited by SwisStingray; 03-28-2014 at 02:43 PM.

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    Senior Member booie's Avatar
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    I changed my factory oil at 50 miles to a conventional oil (Castrol GTX). I ran the conventional oil hard for 500 miles and just changed back to mobil 1. I will run a full syn. from now on. A bit more expensive but with all the research i've done now I know my girl is broken in right. RELEASE THE BEAST!

    booie

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    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    This oil analysis report is from the owner of another S2000

    Blackstone Labs Oil Analysis Results from S2000's first Oil change at 3752 miles and 3 months service. This was the factory fill oil:


    SUS Viscosity @210 degrees F: 56.6 - I'm not sure what this means and a reference value was not provided
    Flashpoint 370
    Fuel %: <0.5
    Water %: 0.0
    Antifreeze %: 0.0
    Insolubles %: 0.2

    Insolubles are solid material that is centrifuge out of the oil. They are typically free carbon from the oxidation of the Oil itself, along with blow-by past the rings.

    Elements in Parts per Million PPM. The first number is my analysis the second number is the universal average provided by Blackstone

    Chromium: 1, 2- rings a trace element in steel
    Copper: 19, 14- Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, Oil coolers, also an additive in some oils
    Iron: 10, 19- Cylinders, rotating shafts, valve train and any steel part sharing the oil
    Lead: 3, 4- Bearings
    Tin: 0, 0- Bearings, bronze parts, piston coatings
    Aluminum: 21, 12- Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks)
    Silicon: 48, 33- Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, anti-freeze inhibitors
    Barium:4, 7- Detergent/dispersant additive
    Boron: 86, 52- Detergent/dispersant additive, anti-freeze inhibitors
    Calcium: 1578, 1165- Detergent/dispersant additive
    Manganese: 1, 2- Trace element, gasoline additive
    Magnesium: 6, 236- Detergent/dispersant additive
    Molybdenum: 574, 291- Anti-wear additive, some types of rings
    Nickel: 1, 1- Trace element in steel
    Phosphorus: 686, 668- Anti-wear additive
    Silver: 0, 0- Trace Element
    Sodium: 7, 18- Anti-freeze inhibitors, Oil additive
    Titanium: 0, 0- Trace Element
    Vanadium: 0, 0- Trace Element
    Zinc: 849, 813- Anti wear additive





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    Senior Member Roadrat3's Avatar
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    Ok im new to all of this and all this is greek to me, so what do i do when i get my car next week? do i keep the oil it came with in there or do i change it out after 50 miles? I won't to do whatever needs to be done to take care of my car now and in the future. Please someone help me out.
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    Senior Member U.S. Marine's Avatar
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    Chip, I shut down reading this report, chem101

    SF
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    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrat3 View Post
    Ok im new to all of this and all this is greek to me, so what do i do when i get my car next week? do i keep the oil it came with in there or do i change it out after 50 miles? I won't to do whatever needs to be done to take care of my car now and in the future. Please someone help me out.
    Just leave it in and change it (IMO) @ 3K or sooner. Your next change interval depends on how you drive it and how much. There is nothing wrong with extending your next change, (2nd) as oil is cheap insurance.




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    Senior Member 53Vette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrat3 View Post
    Ok im new to all of this and all this is greek to me, so what do i do when i get my car next week? do i keep the oil it came with in there or do i change it out after 50 miles? I won't to do whatever needs to be done to take care of my car now and in the future. Please someone help me out.
    Everyone has their own right answer to this question. Do what you feel is right. You aren't going to hurt you motor as long as you change your oil regularly.

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    Senior Member SwisStingray's Avatar
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    Boole, the Castrol GTX oil is not a break in one (but OK better than a synthetic one), a break in oil is very specific... and very basic mineral oil, without any additive and it have to be used very carefully as overheating is easy with it if pushing to hardly for a while , fortunately the C7 have an oil temperature gauge
    Last edited by SwisStingray; 03-28-2014 at 04:15 PM.
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    Senior Member tmcternan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    SwisStingray; You have posed a question about oil that I have wondered about for sometime in the corvette. The S2000 (and perhaps other cars) came with a high Zinc factory fill oil that was there to facilitate a "proper" engine break in. The owners manual specified that this oil be left in the engine for a full 5K before changing out. I think many owners changed it out before then, (I did @ 3K) but clearly Honda thought that a special oil that was not synthetically based was important for a proper engine run-in.
    Oh Chip, you are SO SPOT ON HERE! I've been sitting here reading everyone's post, not saying a word, agreeing with some and absolutely cringing at others. And while the opinions have varied in regards to reving er up and side stepping it from the beginning, to taking a more moderate approach without totally babying it was interesting, I do believe perhaps a more moderate approach within reason without being abusive might be the most appropriate. HOWEVER..... What you've said here in regards to using the Zinc based oils for break-in purposes has been a known fact throughout the industry for years, or for as long as the synthetics have come on the market. Royal Purple will tell you themselves to NEVER BREAK-IN A NEW ENGINE WITH THEY'RE [B][U]SYNTHETIC [B][U] oils and they provide a specific non-synthetic break-in oil for that purpose. The problem with looking for specific "Zinc" based oils is the EPA made the oil companies remove the zinc from the oils sold to consumers, therefore, you can't go down to your local Auto Zone or Kragen's and buy it. This thread has really caused me to think about it, and quite frankly, I'm kind of disappointed finding out that GM is actually using a synthetic oil in these brand new engines. I'd love to hear they're explanation on this subject. Perhaps from some with some pretty extensive knowledge on the subject..... I'm going to be taking delivery on a 2015 Z06 next year and while cars aren't generally an investment, there's going to be a considerable amount of $$$ involved and I feel compelled to protect that as much as possible.... For myself, I'm going to be compelled to drive the new Z06 the first 20-miles to my home and dump every drop of that synthetic oil replacing it with a mineral based oil for the first 500 miles along with the filter.... Just my opinion based on my own personal experience, whatever that's worth, which to some who don't know me on this forum isn't worth anything....

  11. #55
    Senior Member tmcternan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwisStingray View Post
    Boole, the Castrol GTX oil is not a break in one (but OK better than a synthetic one), a break in oil is very specific... and very basic mineral oil, without any additive and it have to be used very carefully as overheating is easy with it if pushing to hardly for a while , fortunately the C7 have an oil temperature gauge
    Dude! Your pretty spot on here as well. The overheating issue may not be that much of an issue if one refrains from flat footing the throttle through the gears. It will probably work fine if one takes it easy.... Know what I mean?

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    Senior Member joshg's Avatar
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    From what I've read, modern car engines are 90% broken in from the factory where they do all sorts of calibration and load testing. While heavy loads may be a good way to work in an engine for 0 miles, by the time you get your car it will have been revved-up, tested and driven. Most of the break in will already have been done for you. This is what pretty much all the auto engineers that have weighed in on this via other forums have said.

    Does anyone have any contact with Corvette engineers or engine testers? Seems like they'd know for sure.

  13. #57
    Senior Member booie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwisStingray View Post
    Boole, the Castrol GTX oil is not a break in one (but OK better than a synthetic one), a break in oil is very specific... and very basic mineral oil, without any additive and it have to be used very carefully as overheating is easy with it if pushing to hardly for a while , fortunately the C7 have an oil temperature gauge
    Here's what someone with 100X more knowledge than me says about how to break in a new HP engine. He's a supporting vendor( RX Perf. Products).

    Good luck,
    booie


    What happens now days is these engines come prefilled with M1 full synthetic, a superior oil that provides excellent protection from friction, etc. This is great for an engine that is already broken in and rings have seated properly, but it also makes the ring seating to begin with a crap shoot (GM still has excess oil consumption as the #1 warranty related service visit) as this initial period from new the rings and cylinder walls need to "wear in" to each other for a good seal. After 400-500 miles a very hard glaze sets in and then there can no longer be any further seating (we seat rings and break-in our race motors 2 runs down the track, street engines the first 100-200 miles, and rarely ever have anything but the best ring seating one could hope for).

    Here is what happens when an engine is not run hard enough to create enough load on the rings to overcome the lubrication provided by the oil used:



    In the old days, and still today with aviation engines that the pilots life depends on it, break in oil (a conventional mineral based) came pre-filled and it provided enough protection for the bearings and journals IF driven easy the first 500-1000 mile, yet allowed enough friction for the cross hatch hone to seat the rings properly. It was then critical to drain and fill with a good oil and then could be driven hard. If you went from the showroom to the race track with break-in oil back then you stood a good chance of spinning a bearing or worse.

    Today, marketing has conditioned the buyer to get in the new car and aside from put gas in, never open the hood or consider doing any maintenance until 10k or so miles when a DIC message prompts them to do so, so this has resulted in all the re-ring jobs since 1997 when the LS1 was first introduced (that and the piston slap that was addressed with coated skirts) and GM to this day takes the stance that "consumption of 1 qt of oil per 1500 miles is considered normal" when there is no way this should occur.

    So, aside from immediately draining the syn oil before driving your new car and filling with conventional to aid ring seat, driving it hard (not unsafe, not abusing it) for several full throttle accelerations, and deceleration (rings need to be loaded with both for proper BMPE to seat properly) one can then drain and change oil/filter to remove break-in debris and be confidant that the rings have seated properly and oil consumption at a minimum, and power at a maximum. The heat cycling process is also critical, during this first 50 miles stop a few times and let the engine cool and then continue.

    Now we recommend driving easy the first 50 miles so the ring and pinon mesh properly and the brake pads bed as well, but other than that, there is no real critical drivetrain parts needing any break-in.

    Here are some links to back this up for the skeptics (remember, the engineers don't write the owners manual):

    This one probably the most informative and detailed:

    http://www.tcmlink.com/visitors/carenfeed/brkin.pdf

    Proper Engine Break-In - AVweb Features Article

    Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power



    New Engine Break-in Procedure

  14. #58
    Member Xp800's Avatar
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    FWIW, the LT1 factory fill is not Mobil1 as has been in the LSx days. It's the standard GM dexos1 certified semi-synthetic 5w-30 that dealerships sell. That said, GM is not an oil company, and some have speculated it's Mobil Clean 5000 or some similar formulation. So for those who are in the 100% synthetic is bad for break in camp, the factory fill may only be 50% bad. Or 50% good enough for the optimists.

    For me, I went with the recommendations in the manual, and I will change the oil at 1000 miles to a full synthetic simply because it's what I'm comfortable with. And if I'm honest, it's probably just a waste of money and good oil. As a mechanical engineer myself primarily focused in the auto industry, not once did I think I knew more about the C7 than the folks who engineered it.

    And if we're lucky, all of these different methods will work nearly equally well because some smart engineers designed the LT1 robustly enough to withstand all the wrong ways.

    IMO engine technology, materials, and tolerances have evolved, and so too should the paradigms around their break in and operation. The way it's been done for the past 40 years may not necessarily apply or may need an adjustment. However, I can understand the thought process around most of the divergent opinions on the best break in procedures mentioned here. There's clearly a lot of experience to back up most of what's been put forth as the best way to do it. But I do think there are good technical reasons for the LT1/C7 engineers to recommend what's in the manual - especially considering its a new engine family and improved technology. The reasons mentioned in this thread echo what I've read elsewhere. It seems like it's the other bits in the driveline more than the motor that need the time.

    Maybe I'm naive, but to me there must be a good reason that someone went to the trouble of programming the 4000RPM redline on the tach for the first 500 miles. And also that after 500 miles, the tach's redline starts @4000RPM when cold, and then gradually increases as the engine comes up to temperature.
    Last edited by Xp800; 03-28-2014 at 09:17 PM.
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    ^This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.
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    Thanks to al of you for sharing your many years of experience! There are differing opinions but I just can't help thinking (and feeling) how lucky I was to come across this forum. I used to pay a lot of money to sit in front of a Dr. (now I'm married to one) for medical information. I feel like I'm in a room full of Dr's offering their expert advice for free! Now if I could just figure out how to fit my 6'4" 200# frame into this car with my cowboy boots on without marking up the car I'll be a happy camper!
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