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  1. #91
    Senior Member mjw930's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragtop View Post
    Germans!
    Not really, VWNA is as US company and they administer the warranties in the US and Canada, at least they did back then.
    Mark

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    Senior Member Z51Stingray's Avatar
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    What amazes me is, there are so many people and automotive businesses out there today telling you how to drive your car while breaking it in.

    Most of their methods are completely opposite of what General Motors recommends.

    If I follow their recommendations instead of GM's, will they pay to fix my car when it breaks down? I think not.

    I'll stick with what's recommended by GM.
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    Senior Member Geo Vette's Avatar
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    For some reason I tend to think GM
    knows what the are doing. Will go
    by their recommendation. Also think
    you can't beat Mobil 1 synthetic
    It once saved me from a blown engine.

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    Senior Member Geo Vette's Avatar
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    Z51 Stingray
    Love your comment. I too was spanked.
    Once lived in Des Moines it really gets
    cold there.

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    Senior Member davem's Avatar
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    GM is concerned, as a company, about warranty work. Nothing wrong with that. If you drive it per their recommendations, then it will work out great and the transmission and brakes will be perfect. In terms of the engine, you will not have burned the engine in properly and may have lost a few HP due to ring seating. No problem if you are not worried about max. HP. Me, I want every drop of HP.

    I have built a few race cars in my time and know that the first thing you do with a new motor is rev it high. Gm doesn't want you to do this, since they assume you will do it incorrectly and will damage the tranny and brakes in the process.

    In the last 20 years, I have always beaten on a new car on the day I get it. Of course, beating on it is a little different than you think. You don't want to beat on the brakes or tranny, so you do not perform any pedal to the metal events. I simply run the car in second/third gear all the time for the first 10-20 miles, keeping the rev's very high but not punching it much (so the the load on the tranny and brakes is low). You want to seat the rings on the engine, that is what is going to give you the most HP (Correctly me if I am wrong guys). By beating on the engine, via high rev's, low torque, you break in the rings, but allow the tranny and brakes to break in (Like GM wants).
    As an example, I had an M6, which is known to be an oil burner on the M6 Board. I never changed the oil, nor filled it early and yet, beat the crap out of it as described above, when I bought it. It was fast and never burned a drop of oil after my burn in.

  7. #96
    Senior Member Z51Stingray's Avatar
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    Don't race engines need rebuilt or blow up more often?

    Things that make you go... hmmmmm
    Last edited by Z51Stingray; 08-14-2014 at 06:20 AM.
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    Senior Member mjw930's Avatar
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    Breaking in your new C7 procedure

    Dave,

    I agree with you. The wording in the manual just looks like it was written by lawyers and actuaries, not engineers. As a contrast, the wording on my 2014 Ram 1500 is short and to the point. Considering the metallurgy and technology are basically the same I think it shows the difference between the GM behemoth and the more engineering focused Chrysler.

    ENGINE BREAK-IN RECOMMENDATIONS (Ram Truck with Hemi V8)
    A long break-in period is not required for the engine and drivetrain (transmission and axle) in your vehicle.
    Drive moderately during the first 300 miles (500 km). After the initial 60 miles (100 km), speeds up to 50 or 55 mph (80 or 90 km/h) are desirable.
    While cruising, brief full-throttle acceleration within the limits of local traffic laws contributes to a good break-in. Wide-open throttle acceleration in low gear can be detrimental and should be avoided.
    Mark

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  9. #98
    Senior Member Milliwatt Rob's Avatar
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    It was always my understanding that part of the reason for varying speeds and throttle settings was to change the temperature, up and down, of internal parts such as pistons, rings, valves, etc. so as to relieve internal stresses in the parts, particularly cast parts.

    Seems to me that, compared to 50-60 years ago, manufacturing tolerances and micro-finishing of mating surfaces is much more precise these days, reducing the actual scraping of metal against metal during break in that may have existed in the past.

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    Senior Member davem's Avatar
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    Mark,

    Nice... Chrysler is basically saying beat the crap out of that truck (But, of course, obey all traffic laws). A little lawyer content, but not too much.

    I am going to beat up my Vette and then do a dyno. (I am doing the dyno because I am putting in a Procharger (after about 1500 miles) and want to see the before and after). Let's see who has the most hp after break in. I am also taking it to the track (1/4 mile) before and after.
    The good news is that the Procharger can be removed with no trace of the install, so if I fry the motor, GM covers it. (Shhhh, don't tell anyone).

  11. #100
    Banned Tuner Boost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davem View Post
    GM is concerned, as a company, about warranty work. Nothing wrong with that. If you drive it per their recommendations, then it will work out great and the transmission and brakes will be perfect. In terms of the engine, you will not have burned the engine in properly and may have lost a few HP due to ring seating. No problem if you are not worried about max. HP. Me, I want every drop of HP.

    I have built a few race cars in my time and know that the first thing you do with a new motor is rev it high. Gm doesn't want you to do this, since they assume you will do it incorrectly and will damage the tranny and brakes in the process.

    In the last 20 years, I have always beaten on a new car on the day I get it. Of course, beating on it is a little different than you think. You don't want to beat on the brakes or tranny, so you do not perform any pedal to the metal events. I simply run the car in second/third gear all the time for the first 10-20 miles, keeping the rev's very high but not punching it much (so the the load on the tranny and brakes is low). You want to seat the rings on the engine, that is what is going to give you the most HP (Correctly me if I am wrong guys). By beating on the engine, via high rev's, low torque, you break in the rings, but allow the tranny and brakes to break in (Like GM wants).
    As an example, I had an M6, which is known to be an oil burner on the M6 Board. I never changed the oil, nor filled it early and yet, beat the crap out of it as described above, when I bought it. It was fast and never burned a drop of oil after my burn in.
    And you are doing it right. I have over 40 years of engine building from OEM stock to NHRA Championship engines. GM is only looking at warranty in the initial stage of ownership. Anyone doubting this has never worked as a GM or other auto maker technician that gets to inspect the causes of oil consumption, etc. from follow the draconian directions in the owners manual. Just as the ignition switch .67 cent fix. Trust them completely! Every supercar engine is broken in on either and engine dyno or chassis dyno just as we break them in. This ensures proper ring seating.

    Any here old enough to remember all cars/truck used to come with break-in oil in the 60's and 70's? Then you HAD to follow instructions the same as today.....that oil was only enough protection to ensure bearings and journals were protected if run very easy, and had a very easy to break lubrication barrier between the rings and the cylinder wall so the rings did seat properly driven easy, and it was critical to drain no more than 1000 miles and then fill w/standard oil and drive hard.

    The industry is trying to accommodate those that buy a vehicle, get in and drive for 10k miles before the hood is even opened. Thats why all the excess oil consumption issues. I welcome anyone to stop into our facility and see just what happens inside your cylinders if you drive easy with a syn blend or full syn that critical first few hundred miles. We always have 6-10 plus engines in tear down or rebuild here for a tech to show you and give a crash course on it all. You wont trust blindly in any corporate BS after seeing this first hand. And there are always those that will do fine breaking in easy, but that is a gamble. The hard break-in will ensure proper ring-seat.

  12. #101
    Senior Member Z51Stingray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuner Boost View Post
    And you are doing it right. I have over 40 years of engine building from OEM stock to NHRA Championship engines. GM is only looking at warranty in the initial stage of ownership. Anyone doubting this has never worked as a GM or other auto maker technician that gets to inspect the causes of oil consumption, etc. from follow the draconian directions in the owners manual. Just as the ignition switch .67 cent fix. Trust them completely! Every supercar engine is broken in on either and engine dyno or chassis dyno just as we break them in. This ensures proper ring seating.

    Any here old enough to remember all cars/truck used to come with break-in oil in the 60's and 70's? Then you HAD to follow instructions the same as today.....that oil was only enough protection to ensure bearings and journals were protected if run very easy, and had a very easy to break lubrication barrier between the rings and the cylinder wall so the rings did seat properly driven easy, and it was critical to drain no more than 1000 miles and then fill w/standard oil and drive hard.

    The industry is trying to accommodate those that buy a vehicle, get in and drive for 10k miles before the hood is even opened. Thats why all the excess oil consumption issues. I welcome anyone to stop into our facility and see just what happens inside your cylinders if you drive easy with a syn blend or full syn that critical first few hundred miles. We always have 6-10 plus engines in tear down or rebuild here for a tech to show you and give a crash course on it all. You wont trust blindly in any corporate BS after seeing this first hand. And there are always those that will do fine breaking in easy, but that is a gamble. The hard break-in will ensure proper ring-seat.
    So, if I follow your break-in procedures and I have a denied warranty claim, will you pay for the fix and can I get that in writing?
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  13. #102
    Banned Tuner Boost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z51Stingray View Post
    So, if I follow your break-in procedures and I have a denied warranty claim, will you pay for the fix and can I get that in writing?
    LOL!! I see the rudeness and insult in that statement, (I was reading your signature on "respect for others" so it surprised me) but let's look at this practically and technically. You are free to do it anyway you choose...it is your $ spent to buy the car, I am only sharing over 40 years of engine building and literally thousands of engines, and I started with GM in 1974 and have seen all the changes and advancements as well as the issues of following the owners manual and the tens of thousands (well times that times ten actually) of unhappy owners since 1997 when the excess oil consumption issues first arose.

    So tell me, what would happen technically anywhere in the engine to cause a failure from doing it the way that assures proper ring seating? Let's get into the technical side of it....I'm sure you have a ton more expariance and knowledge than I do on this.

    And why is it then that every Super Car maker breaks the new engines in on a dyno with full throttle wide-open runs and deceleration's? How many engines do you examine every month with excessive oil consumption issues (I'm talking close magnified inspection of the cylinder walls and rings)?

    Here are just a few in the shop right now:

    $12,000 LT-1 engine with Dart block, AFR heads going into a mid 90's Impala SS with V7 Vortech, will make North of 1000 HP to the wheels.


    68 Camaro LS swap, all modern suspension, etc. with Vic Jr and 750 carb, nice cam:


    57 Chevy $100K custom. Has built 502 right now, swapping in a new LS engine for fuel economy, similar power, and the reliability of a LS computer controlled:




    900 HP V7 Vortech blown LS engine custom hot-rod the "Ultra". Sema car and finishing for TV show (can't disclose due to NDA):



    In the background, 73 vette...all modern suspension, steering, AC, and 525 HP LS3 NA w/4L70E trans for 2 star General from McDill:


    64 vert resto mod with built LS2, Tremic TKO, cantilever rear suspension, AC, etc. Road raced, show winner, Power Tour feature car has made several full tours and competed in drag/autocross/etc.


    My mid 10 sec NA, mid 9 sec spray custom C5, feature car in publications, cover car on Vette, race winner all over the Eastern US:



    The race team and Dragsters:




    And lots of other professional builders to show the same:

    Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

    This one shows in the car the importance of loading the rings both ways.....we prefer to give it a 50 mile or so easy and then full throttle acceleration and deceleration, but both ways are effective:




    And there are tons more.


    This is just to prove I am not just someone with an "opinion", but have the qualifications to back up the claims......but absolutely, the owner of the car should do only what they feel comfortable with.
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  14. #103
    Banned Tuner Boost's Avatar
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    I just had to add this one as well:



    Cheers!

  15. #104
    Senior Member ronkh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z51Stingray View Post
    So, if I follow your break-in procedures and I have a denied warranty claim, will you pay for the fix and can I get that in writing?
    Good question !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuner Boost View Post
    LOL!! I see the rudeness and insult in that statement, (I was reading your signature on "respect for others" so it surprised me)This is just to prove I am not just someone with an "opinion", but have the qualifications to back up the claims......but absolutely, the owner of the car should do only what they feel comfortable with.
    I actually see rudeness, conceit and hubris in your reply. You told him not to worry about the $$$$ he spent on HIS car.

    You may have the "qualifications" to say what you said, but your attitude continuously erodes your message(see all the catch can threads). So, since you gave your "professional" opinion, back it up with the $$$.
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  16. #105
    Senior Member Geo Vette's Avatar
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    Ronkh
    Excellent point. When I hear someone
    very adamantly stating a position.
    I wonder are they trying to convince
    me or themselves. But that is just me.
    Z51Stingray likes this.

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