Stingray Corvette Forum banner

1 - 5 of 5 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
15,890 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Here is a new Speed Phenom video following two track days at Laguna Seca

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
2020 Corvette C8 Z51 Brake Pads

Kudos to Austin Everett, aka Speed Phenom the enthusiastic owner of 'RedHot' 2020 Corvette C8 Z51. His Speed Phenom Youtube Channel is always fun to watch.

When I was his age we did all our racing street or track stealthily so as not to draw much attention, but it's a New Day and Austin Everett is definitely "All In" in 2020.

He is naive and gets so geeked out by all things automotive and it is really refreshing that someone from his generation is into cars!!

As an Automotive Engineer who specializes in Brakes and Suspension and Vehicle Dynamics perhaps I can provide a Tutorial on brakes here to help understand the brake issue with the 2020 Corvette C8 Z51.

I was the Vice President of Product Development, Engineering, R&D and Quality for Brake Parts Inc. (Raybestos Brand Brakes) for 11 years and am now retired.

I have a 2015 Corvette C7 Z51 3LT 7M Shark Grey Track Days car that I enjoy as much as possible.

In the video Austin refers to the smallness of the rear brake pads and the cut down friction layer. These are special chamfers that are used to reduce noise, vibration and harshness.or NVH. What Corvette owners want is no brake noise or squeal and this is how brake manufacturers reduce brake noise. Also the small brake pad surface area provides a massive clamping force from the caliper in pounds per square inch.

The brake friction material is not the same compound or formula as the C7 Corvette for the Z51 brake package. The reason for this is that there is New Legislation in California and Washington States that restrict the amount of copper allowed in brake pads. All 2020 vehicles must be low or no copper by now which affects the ability of vehicles to stop and their wear characteristics.

The 2020 Corvette C8 uses a Brembo brake package and the Brake Pads Edge Code in the Speed Phenom video is - Pagid HP 443 GF N20. I have deciphered the Edge Code see references below for background e.g. Safebraking and NSF.

Suffice it to say, by 2021 in both states, copper in all brake friction materials must be less than 5% by weight. By 2025, California law requires that copper must be less than 0.5% by weight.

For the Brembo brake package and Pagid manufactured brake pads the Edge Code is Level N: which means the requirements of copper levels must be less than 0.5% by weight. This means the Pagid brake pad material is likely a Semi-Metallic compound that meets the no copper legislation requirements. It will also cause excessive brake dust on your wheels, but that is the tradeoff you get with High Performance brake pads versus Ceramic brake pads which are typically low brake dust on your wheels.

Pagid is an OE brand of TMD Friction, and part of the Nisshinbo Group – the world's biggest manufacturer of brake friction, and a truly global partner for the automotive industry.

In the video Austin shows the brake shim used for noise reduction and isolation which delaminated from the backing plate due to the excessive heat generated from the Track Days punishment. In the Brake Industry when brakes overheat they can catch on FIRE, but we tend to rather call it a "Thermal Event" rather than FIRE as that word causes undue panic!!

The brake pad material is also worn down to the backing plate where you can see the friction material MRS or "Material Retention System" that is a combination of glue that bonds the friction material to the steel backing plate and the raised nubs on the backing plate that holds the friction material in place when it is molded so that is doesn't shear off during regressive brake torque.

Decrypting Brake Pad Edge Codes - Safe Braking.

Listing Category Search Page | NSF International

In the video Austin does what we call in the Industry a "Pad Slap" which is not really a Professional way of servicing the brakes. The rotors if scored should be turned or replaced which obviously adds further cost to Track Days events for the C8.

Hope the tutorial is helpful!! Eventually we'll see some racing brakes soon from Raybestos like their ST43 racing pad compound for the C8 or other Aftermarket Performance parts manufacturers!!

Cheers,

Terry #14 T-Bone
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
15,890 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks very much for your post Terry! Informative and well written. (y)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
2020 Corvette C8 Z51 Brake Pads

Kudos to Austin Everett, aka Speed Phenom the enthusiastic owner of 'RedHot' 2020 Corvette C8 Z51. His Speed Phenom Youtube Channel is always fun to watch.

When I was his age we did all our racing street or track stealthily so as not to draw much attention, but it's a New Day and Austin Everett is definitely "All In" in 2020.

He is naive and gets so geeked out by all things automotive and it is really refreshing that someone from his generation is into cars!!

As an Automotive Engineer who specializes in Brakes and Suspension and Vehicle Dynamics perhaps I can provide a Tutorial on brakes here to help understand the brake issue with the 2020 Corvette C8 Z51.

I was the Vice President of Product Development, Engineering, R&D and Quality for Brake Parts Inc. (Raybestos Brand Brakes) for 11 years and am now retired.

I have a 2015 Corvette C7 Z51 3LT 7M Shark Grey Track Days car that I enjoy as much as possible.

In the video Austin refers to the smallness of the rear brake pads and the cut down friction layer. These are special chamfers that are used to reduce noise, vibration and harshness.or NVH. What Corvette owners want is no brake noise or squeal and this is how brake manufacturers reduce brake noise. Also the small brake pad surface area provides a massive clamping force from the caliper in pounds per square inch.

The brake friction material is not the same compound or formula as the C7 Corvette for the Z51 brake package. The reason for this is that there is New Legislation in California and Washington States that restrict the amount of copper allowed in brake pads. All 2020 vehicles must be low or no copper by now which affects the ability of vehicles to stop and their wear characteristics.

The 2020 Corvette C8 uses a Brembo brake package and the Brake Pads Edge Code in the Speed Phenom video is - Pagid HP 443 GF N20. I have deciphered the Edge Code see references below for background e.g. Safebraking and NSF.

Suffice it to say, by 2021 in both states, copper in all brake friction materials must be less than 5% by weight. By 2025, California law requires that copper must be less than 0.5% by weight.

For the Brembo brake package and Pagid manufactured brake pads the Edge Code is Level N: which means the requirements of copper levels must be less than 0.5% by weight. This means the Pagid brake pad material is likely a Semi-Metallic compound that meets the no copper legislation requirements. It will also cause excessive brake dust on your wheels, but that is the tradeoff you get with High Performance brake pads versus Ceramic brake pads which are typically low brake dust on your wheels.

Pagid is an OE brand of TMD Friction, and part of the Nisshinbo Group – the world's biggest manufacturer of brake friction, and a truly global partner for the automotive industry.

In the video Austin shows the brake shim used for noise reduction and isolation which delaminated from the backing plate due to the excessive heat generated from the Track Days punishment. In the Brake Industry when brakes overheat they can catch on FIRE, but we tend to rather call it a "Thermal Event" rather than FIRE as that word causes undue panic!!

The brake pad material is also worn down to the backing plate where you can see the friction material MRS or "Material Retention System" that is a combination of glue that bonds the friction material to the steel backing plate and the raised nubs on the backing plate that holds the friction material in place when it is molded so that is doesn't shear off during regressive brake torque.

Decrypting Brake Pad Edge Codes - Safe Braking.

Listing Category Search Page | NSF International

In the video Austin does what we call in the Industry a "Pad Slap" which is not really a Professional way of servicing the brakes. The rotors if scored should be turned or replaced which obviously adds further cost to Track Days events for the C8.

Hope the tutorial is helpful!! Eventually we'll see some racing brakes soon from Raybestos like their ST43 racing pad compound for the C8 or other Aftermarket Performance parts manufacturers!!

Cheers,

Terry #14 T-Bone
On a C8 with a carbon ceramic set up would this alleviate the problem?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Kevin, per Motor Trend magazine, "the Z51's J55 brake setup gets larger rotors all around (13.3 inch front, 13.8 inch rear). Carbon-ceramic brakes are not offered on the Stingray."

"A big braking challenge that was not related to the amidships powertrain placement: regulation to remove copper from the brake pads, which had accounted for 20 percent of the material. (It's out, but only the pad suppliers know exactly what replaced it.)"

As I stated in my tutorial on brake pads the C7 & C8 are both using semi-metallic materials in the brake pads and are therefore meeting the regulations for no copper content. Semi-metallic brake pads means they have steel fibers in the compound, (think steel wool), and therefore provide high performance stopping power and lots of wheel dust.

But, the change to Pagid brake pad compounds and formulas on the C8 are apparently causing premature wear on Track Days running on Speed Phenoms C8. I would suggest we watch for more examples of C8's doing Track Days events to see if this a trend worthy of GM and the Corvette Team coming up with a better solution.

As I mentioned Track Days or Racing compounds will likely be released from Raybestos (ST43), PFC, Hawk, Stop-Tech, Pagid and other Aftermarket brake manufacturers.

For more information on carbon ceramic brakes for street use yes it would certainly help with wheel dust, and is only available on the C7 Z06 or ZR1 and have been known to last the life of the vehicle on the C7 and it is an expensive option on the C7.

For more information on carbon ceramic brakes see the attached reference and link from GM Authority. It says they are not suitable for Track Days use.

I would suggest trolling the Stingray forum to see if anyone is tracking their C7's Z06 or ZR1 with the carbon ceramic brakes and see how long they last.

.

Cheers,

Terry #14 T-Bone
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
Top