[Richardllord]

Dear C7 Fellow Aficionados’:

I shall be a first time Corvette buyer this year, or the next. I originally was going to buy a certified big block C2 even if only as a local driver car due to gas issues, or a fully depreciated Z06 or ZR1. I primarily wanted a Corvette for what appeals to most Corvette enthusiasts – Sports car looks, performance, driving satisfaction, collectability, and investment.

However, I have instead decided to buy a C7 for the above reasons with emphasis on driving satisfaction. The first thing my wife and I shall do is take a cross-county tour in it. We could not do so in a C2.

I wonder how the C7 shall affect Corvette collector values if others like me eschew the C1-C6 for a C7?

I noticed that most dealers are offering the C7 at MSRP. Big whoop. They just will not be selling one to me.

I know there are those out there who shall have to have a C7 even at MSRP or above when it first comes out. There is a $5,000 to $7,000 mark-up from dealer invoice to MSRP depending on options (see KBB and Edmunds on-line). Those who buy a C7 at MSRP stand to lose that amount as soon they drive their cars off the lots. Again, I shall not be one of them. If I have to wait until late 2014, 2015, or later, so be it. I don’t choose to give away thousands of dollars just to be the 1st kid on the block to have one. It’s a great car, but unless you have more money than sense, let’s make the dealers make deals.

Which brings me to my point. There shall be no shortage of C7’s, and so cool your jets. Those who buy at MSRP and above need not do so if we all exercise patience and good buying judgment. For those who don’t, what that means for the rest of us is a longer wait time for reasonable prices. Keep in mind the investment aspect of buying a Corvette. Look at the huge Chevy and dealer mark-downs on the 2013’s, and that’s about what you stand to lose in depreciation of a C7 at MSRP.

Chevy shall produce some 37,000 corvettes in the first year of production assuming it has matching dealer orders. This is in line with its best C6 production years of 35,000 to 40,000 units. Bowling Green has four 10 hr. shift days per week, and at 52 weeks x 18 per hr., that is 37,400 C7’s. At MSRP of $51,000 to the max at about $75,000, that is between two and three billion dollars in gross sales. At MSRP profit above invoice at $5,000 to $7,000 x 37,400 Corvettes that means dealers are picking 187 million to 262 million dollars from your pockets all the while you watch them do it even encouraging them to do so. Not from my pocket, thank you very much!

My hope is that enough of you exercise enough good sense to resist from getting your place of #1, #2, #3 in the order line for the privilege of paying MSRP and getting your pockets picked clean. If you exercise good sense, cars shall sit on lots, and soon all of us shall be able to make deals and pay below MSRP when demand comes in line with supply.

Look, I can’t come down too hard on you for buying the C7 ASAP even at MSRP as it is a great car. You shall have the privilege of driving one before me. On the other hand, the money I save shall buying smart shall more than pay for my trip across country and back.

Just sayin’

This what I shall order

2014 Corvette Convertible 3LT w/Z51 Package

Equipment Equipment # MSRP $ Dealer Invoice $
Stingray Convertible Black Top w/Z51 Package 1YX67 58,800 53,958
Equipment Group 3LT 8,005 7,044
Transmission – 7 Speed Manual MEP 0 0
Navigation System – Included in 3LT Package UY4 0 0
Exterior Color – Crystal Red Tintcoat GBE 995 876
Interior Color – Adrenaline Red 70 0 0
Wheels – Z51 Black Aluminum Q7T 495 436
Calipers, Red-Painted J6F 595 524
Battery Protection Package ERI 100 88
Magnetic Selective Ride FE4 1,795 1,580
Dual Mode Performance Exhaust NPP 1,195 1,052
Carbon Flash Spoiler & Mirrors TTV 100 88
Carbon Fiber Interior Trim & Instrument Panel FAY 995 876
License Plate Front Bracket VK3 15 13

Total 73,090 66,535
Destination Charge 995 995
Grand Total 74,085 67,530

 

[elegant]

Let me understand this. This is your first post and up to now you have never owned a Corvette. And you are lecturing others that you are buying smart (they aren't) and you are also able to predict how many C7's will be produced and how prices will drop significantly.

While I am new to this forum, been involved with Corvettes for decades, been on another Corvette forum for over ten years. With all that experience, I have no idea how soon Covette production will ramp up, how many folks will want one, how soon before prices drop. I am, instead, excited for other folks who are getting their C7 real soon and are willing to pay MSRP. Good for them! Spend your money when you want. And, yes, over time, more people will pay less than MSRP. However, raining on others' parades is not positive.

 

[Richardllord]

Well, I owned a last generation Camaro Indy Pace Car - Great car - Better than the C that year. All I am saying is that most of us shall exercise good buying sense in purchasing a C7, and those who don't, great for you, but that takes you out of the investment side of the equation, and makes it harder for the rest of us to buy one when we want at a reasonable price. Remember, despite the smiles and handshakes, dealers are not your friends - they shall take every dollar they can until supply exceeds demand. Again, dealers are not your friends no matter where they place you in line to buy one at MSRP. Repeat after me, dealers are not your friends.

 

[Cyber11]

I think I understand what Sir Richard is saying....Dealers are not our friends. Let me suggest we all cancel our orders until we get the official OK from his highness. I wonder if he would be surprised to know that many of us may actually know what we're doing. Guess this post shows how much I enjoy being lectured to.
One more point Richard, if you wait, as you say, until 2015 or later have you factored in 2 or possibly 3 price increases before you buy? May cost you more than a few additional thousand by then.

 

[Richardllord]

The fact of the matter is that those who buy at MSRP or above negate the investment side of the Corvette equation that is one of the tenants of Corvette ownership. If one has to have a C7 at any price, so be it, but it likely shall be at a steep financial loss for the lifetime of the car. Again, look at far the 2013 has fallen in terms of current Chevy and dealer discounts to move them, and the financial loss to those who purchased them at the beginning of initial 2013 pricing. The C7 likely shall not suffer as badly, but ALL new cars including Corvettes depreciate, and it takes about a half decade or more for the deprecation to stop (see the Vette-n-Investments Guide). Those who buy at MSRP and above take an even harder depreciation hit that most of the rest of us are unwilling to abide. I want and shall buy a C7, but I shall not put aside good financial sense to do so, and sooner than later I shall be able buy one at a negotiated price. It shall be interesting to see just how many C7's sell at MSRP and above and how long it takes before the rest of us are able to negotiate our purchases. Just saying that the more of us who exercise buying restraint on the side of good financial sense, the better it is for the entire Corvette buying community.

 

[Chip]

Here is my take: MSRP is what it is. If you want an early C-7 and can handle the list price, then buy all means go for it. It's far too early to know what prices will be in 6 months or more. It is typical for GM to hike prices several months into a model year for a new car. Will the economy and the reception / sales rate of the C-7 support such a rise? Unknown, but if sales are sluggish come next winter I believe that dealers will drop their mark-up. I expect the same thing to play out as the convertibles start to roll off the line this fall / winter. Those of us that want a rag top will be faced with the same set of circumstances. The wild card is that traditionally convertibles don't sell well in the winter in the great white-north / northeast, so there might be some advantage in dealers easing off the MSRP on the verts. After all they are an additional 5K$ anyway.

 

[Redc7]

Last time I checked I live in America.

 

[StingraySam]

Richard, while you are sitting around counting your nickels, I shall be driving my Velocity Yellow Z51 Stingray 3LT all over town, participating in car shows, parades, poker runs and charity events with my Corvette Club. As you pinch your pennies, I shall be enjoying the throaty purr of my Direct Injection V-8 while cruising the highways and byways of America. As you stack your dimes I shall be spending time with friends who understand that owning and driving a 'Vette is not about how much you saved but about how much pleasure you get from driving an iconic American sports car. And finally, Richard, as you scoop your quarters into a Mason jar and dream of the day when you'll finally be able to get your Corvette at a miserly price, I shall be behind the wheel of my Stingray with the sun on my face and the wind in my hair....and loving it.

 

[torijona]

This is too funny...

Richarllord, you can do as you please. So that you are aware, only few people actually use internet forums and only a few percentage of potential Corvette owners will sign up for this one; many of them will not even see this thread. At this point, demand is greater than supply. So, I was truly surprised to find out that my local dealer was nice enough to give back to their customers by selling at MSRP.

Just a thought, you could get a regular corvette (coupe with no Z51 package) for the same price.

Some people just want what they want whenever they want it. So, that being said, you are nobody to tell others how to manage their finances. So, you are better off getting a part-time job or just waiting for about 2 more years; the car is likely to be way more expensive (you can see the Nissan GTR price increase over the last 2 years, which was more than $12K from 2011 to 2014; some improvements were made though).

So, just be happy for others and be a happy person yourself. Live at let live

 

[Richardllord]

I am not surprised at the responses from some who would pay MSRP and above. Again, one of the attractions and tenets of Corvette ownership, unlike other sports cars, is the investment factor. While those who buy a C7 at MSRP (and above) surely shall be driving one before me in being oblivious to the investment factor, if they have to sell it if say they lose a job can no longer afford it, or trade it in on another Vette, the financial reality of their unwise purchase at MSRP shall be sobering indeed. Those of us in the top 5% income bracket and above got there not by making unwise financial decisions. While I can afford a C7 at any price, like most of the Corvette community, I shall buy keeping in mind my sensible purchase also as an investment. While some may drive a C7 before me, I likely shall be driving mine longer than they if their C7 purchase at MSRP and above represents their fanciful purchasing lifestyle. Most C7 Corvette buyers are closer to my community that the MSRP groupies. That said, buy away, but there already is a break from MSRP with some dealers, and the fewer of those who buy at MSRP and above, as supply exceeds demand, the sooner and lower the price for the rest of us, which are the majority of the Corvette community. To paraphrase Janis - "Freedom is just a word for nothing left to lose" for those who shot their wads on a C7 at MSRP where it takes all their earnings just to make payments and keep it running. At least I shall be driving mine with the peace of mind knowing that it shall not take me for a ride financially like their ex-wives.

 

[StingraySam]

First, there is no 95% income bracket nor an income bracket anywhere close to it, so you are obviously claiming to be something you're not, a high income earner. Furthermore, you obviously have no idea what an "investment" is. If you did, you would know that an "investment" is the expenditure of capital for income or profit. Unless you plan to rent out your C7, it is unlikely it will produce income. On the other hand, if you truly believe you will make a profit as a consumer reselling a late-model vehicle you have my sympathy.

What you do appear to be, sir, is a troll, making a rather feeble and transparent effort to inflame others. Thus far I've found your rather juvenile attempt amusing, so thanks for the laugh. Unfortunately, I shan't be responding any further, so someone else shall have to feed you. (BTW, I love your stab at pretentious verbiage; a nice touch, though a little stilted.)

Oh, and good luck with your "investment".

 

[timg]

You pay whatever it is you can afford to pay as long as it doesn't interfere with putting food on the table. We only go around once so have a blast!

 

[Richardllord]

Touting that one is 3rd in line for the "privilege" of paying MSRP or above for ANY car, even a C7, is not a badge of honor with bragging rights. It only indicates ones lack of sound judgment, unless one has more money than Jay Leno where price is no object. Go to the "Vette-n-Vestment" guide, its website, and other like websites if anyone dismisses the investment aspect of Corvette ownership.

My purpose of this thread was not to rain on the parade of those buying at MSRP and above. My first thread was not to put anyone down or diminish the joy we all shall have when we (more likely our banks) own a C7. Rather, my purpose was to encourage the impulsive Corvette community (not the majority of us exercising good buying sense) to resist the temptation to buy at MSRP or above to be among the first to have to have one. If none of us succumb to dealer gouging, all of us would be buying below MSRP sooner than later.

In any case, I shall buy a C7 vert sometime in February, or in the fall of '14, or a '15 model (most say to wait for the 2nd more bug free year) when I get pricing more on my terms. I am seeing some give on the part of dealers as the supply and demand equation is still an unknown to everyone. You don't have to have an MBA, have an annual income north of $130,000, have a Ph.D. wife also with a $130,000+ income (combined $260,000) such as I to buy smart. You just have to exercise some modicum of delayed gratification and eschew excessive compulsiveness. Don't be the epitome of the compulsive buyer that dealers love to which the majority of us just shake our heads in disbelief. Look, just buy smart, for the overall sake of the Corvette community if not yourself, that's all I'm saying. Buying a C7 at a price where when you drive it off the lot you lose almost all the difference between dealer invoice and MSRP at some $5,000 to $7,000 is not smart buying. If you have $7,000 to give away, more power to you. I have $7,000 to give away, and I give that much away and more, but I choose to give it to charities and not a Chevy dealer. Again, dealers are not your friends. Shown some self restraint. We shall respect you more for not buying than buying at MSRP.

 

[Redc7]

One thing first no matter what you or I pay we all lose money as soon as you drive it off the lot invoice or not. Second to buy something equal to the corvette in performance, handling and features in a foreign model will cost you over $100k so as far as I'm concern we're all ahead of the game.

 

[Richardllord]

RedC7 is right in that it is better to purchase a C7 than buy foreign as we get much more for the money. Yes, there shall be depreciation, but how much depends on much we pay. Dealer invoice v MSRP has been the bench mark. One appeal historically of a C7 Corvette over lets say the 2014 Shelby Mustang is that the Corvette shall hold a higher resale value. The big foreigns tend to hold their value as well in line with Corvette. In five years or so the depreciation bottoms out and the car holds it value and even starts an upward climb, depending on what you purchased.

Here are the financials problems buying at MSRP when a car first comes out. Lets say a few months down the road you have a financial set-back and have to sell your C7. Who is going to buy it from you even if you come off a few thousand dollars? By the time you have had a few months fun and put on a few miles, the rest of us shall be working deals below MSRP. Why would we buy your car for a few thousand less than you paid when we can get what we want new at a few thousand less (or more) from a dealer? The dealer friend is not going to buy it back for a few thousand less than you paid, or even take it in on a trade for that amount off, when the dealer can buy at dealer invoice. So, now, in order to get me to buy your C7, or get your dealer friend to take it back in trade, you are going to have to sell it to me or trade it in to a dealer for about dealer invoice and maybe less, which means a $5,000 to $7,000 loss or more. The bottom line is yes buy a C7, but for the sake of the entire C7 buying community, buy smart, and we all come out the better for it.

 

[torijona]

Richardllord,

You use a very rich language. However, your ideas lack common sense and logic. It does not matter how much you make and in IMHO, if you have to think about the future and "what if's" of a Corvette payment on a $260,000 income, you either failed miserably at using birth control (you have 5+ kids and you still have to live economically restrained as the average household) or you are trying to convince yourself that you do make that kind of money when yo don't.

Buying a car in never an investment unless you are a car dealer selling them for profit or if you live in Venezuela where the, once again, supply and demand situation increases the value of the car up to 20% after driving it off the lot; even after a year you can sell 10% above MSRP. Therefore, if you want to make an investment, just buy one, park it in your garage, enclose it in a bubble and try selling it to a collector 30 years from (if you are still alive of course).

Your thoughts reflect the cold truth about doctorates and STEM advanced degrees; they do not develop you emotional intelligence, which MBA's and other similar degrees do. Emotional intelligence is your friend. You should embrace it and use it. What you get from a PhD can only get you so far. I would know because I used to be part of that sad reality, and, thankfully, I did something about it besides trying to show the whole world how smart I am. That is why Fortune 100 companies look to fill their spots with MBA holders rather than PhD's to replace their leaders; with that mentality you will always be a mule and not a leader.

EQ > IQ (ALWAYS)

 

[Richardllord]

I was trying to help you, and the Corvette community in the process, with pricing. However, many would not heed my advice, did not do their MSRP and dealer invoice research, did not shop around and negotiate with dealers, and paid MSRP and above all the while ragging on me.

Because of two market factors, I decided to place my order now, and not wait until demand calms down to supply. I did my MSRP and dealer invoice research, shopped around and negotiated prices, and consequently placed my order for a C7 vert at $1,000 below MSRP with a dealer who now is my new best friend. I put down a $1,000 deposit with this priority dealer, he placed the order with GM while I was there, and now I am in the GM Q for my C7. I can change my options up to about October until GM picks up my order. I had another offer from another dealer at $500 below MSRP. So, it can be done for those willing to make intelligent decisions and make the effort to take wise actions.

A word of advice, for those buying the base coupe; you are not going to get much of a break. For those of us buying highly optioned cars, you can get a price break, if you do the research and make the effort to reason with dealers. Here is what you do if you are buying a highly optioned C7. Ask dealers the level of options of the cars they have on order. Most shall be at the base level. Let’s say a dealer makes $5,000 on a car at MSRP. I come in an offer to order a C7 that lists at $7,000 above MSRP. I reason that if I order with that dealer instead of almost any other dealer selling at MSRP; that dealer gives me a $1,000 discount but nets $6,000 profit instead of $5,000. This is a win-win situation where I save a grand and the dealer makes an extra grand. I actually could have done a bit better, but the dealer gave me a huge price break, and I did not wish to take advantage of my superior MBA business skills. Find a dealer that is selling mostly base C7s.

The market factors that caused me to buy now, in checking with some 2 dozen dealers, is first that the demand is way above that of the C6 at initial offering. Then, it took 18 months for supply to meet demand. Dealers tell me it shall take 2 years of more for supply to meet demand.

Additionally, this fall GM is shipping C7’s to the UK the same time it is delivering to us. This means US dealers get less cars, we get fewer cars, and US prices stay up. Shame on GM for going after the almighty dollar or should I say the almightier Pound and Euro at the expense of US taxpayers and C7 car buyers who bailed out GM and not the Brits.
So, yes, buy a C7, by all means, but you still can buy smart. Negotiate with dealers for options where you buy options even though you may not feel you can afford them and where in turn they give you a break making those options more affordable.

Some of you again shall get on me, but I ask you, did you pay $1,000 below MSRP for your C7?

Just sayin’

 

[Whitesoxman]

Richardlord, I went into my Illinois dealer and put my 1000 dollar deposit on my c7 vert. I am waiting to place my order. Can you give me details on what you bought and what you negotiated. I'm not here to be a prude. If you have an order method to save me 1000 dollars on my order then hook me up. While the people at my dealer are willing to sell it to me for msrp 1000 dollars is still 1000 dollars

 

[torijona]

Good stuff if you were able to get it for $1,000 under MSRP. I honestly have not ever paid MSRP for a car, but for this one I will. First, because my dealer has all their allocations reserved and they still have a list of people who put deposits towards getting on the list if someone gets cold feet. Secondly, the savings to time ratio of negotiating $1,000 towards a C7 in the most popular dealer in my area is not worth it; time is tight between work and school these days. Finally, I rather not get on my dealer's bad side, because as this being the first year, you will likely return to the dealer and you want him to see you as your friend; so, props to you go get the discount and the friendship. I work with dealer networks and I know what they will do and what they will not do for their customers when they are considered friends or "good customers." No hard feelings Richardllord!

Whitesoxman,

You can always leverage the following:

1) 2% approx. dealer hold-back fee.

2) Invoice - MSRP difference (gets larger when adding options at Richarllord said)

3) Previous purchases at that dealership.

4) Possible bugs on the car the first year.

5) Purchasing cash (possibly getting off dealership fees due to less paperwork).

6) Take the salesman on a date (haha just kidding!)

I have run out of ideas, but those should be plenty to get them to get you a better price. But remember that depends on your dealer's particular situation. My dealer has 40 to 60 allocations; I am number 27. After the 40 or 60, there are people waiting as well. So, if you are not willing to pay MSRP, they may just bump someone else who will and $1,000 is not worth your happiness; I was on a similar situation before I got my e46 M3 (I was money constrained though) and it was hard to wait and extra year until I was able to afford it. It can be frustrating to see the car just drive by you when you REALLY want it. Hope this helps!

 

[Richardllord]

OK, in fairness to my dealer, I shall not reveal who it is, as it also has a limited allocation. I have a signed contract that says it shall sell me for $1,000 under MSRP and we have placed the order. However, if you want $500 under MSRP, Radley Chevy of Fredericksburg, VA told me it shall sell me C7 Corvette for $500 under MSRP. Contact it and you may get the same deal. Again. I am only trying to help the Corvette community (you) in getting a C7 below MSRP. Hope that helps.